Talk:Guildford

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County town

Now that the county council is headquartered in Reigate, making it the de facto county town, the whole section needs revising or deleting. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:04, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

The location of the County Council does not determine the status of Count Town. However: since there is no evidence that Guildford is the County Town, I could go along with the section's deletion. Problem is, that someone is bound to readd it. 86.171.232.240 (talk) 14:45, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Guildford is not and never has been the county town of Surrey. Guildford Council itself makes no claim to this status and has indeed denied the status.

Certain obstinate historians (both past and present) at Guildford Museum are determined to claim that Guildford has always been the county town. It is they that have made two separate and unrelated claims as to why this is so. Many separate works that also make the claim are merely repeating the claim when it is presented as part of their research in Guildford.

The first was the claim that Henry IV granted the standard measures to Guildford's care, but the grant itself makes no claim that this bestowed the status of County Town and there is no other evidence that this is the case. That was pure WP:SYNTHESIS by the original museum curator. The reality is that, historically, more than one town had standard measures because of the difficulty in transporting such large and heavy objects around a whole county by horse and carriage to where they were required. Today, every Trading Standards department of any Town or Borough Council is required to have a complete set of such measures, and almost every such Council has such a department.

The second, and currently oft quoted claim, is that Henry III granted a County Court to Guildford. Again the grant itself makes no claim that this granted the status of County Town and there is no other evidence that this is the case. Once again this is pure WP:SYNTHESIS by both the original and current curators as well as other staff. In any case: County Courts have always existed in more than one town in most counties, just as they do today.

The reality is that the County Town is the administrative centre of the county (just as a Capital City is the administrative centre of a country). The County Town of Surrey was officially Southwark while it was in Surrey. The border marker between Surrey and Kent is still visible on the banks of the Thames very close to the current border of the London Boroughs of Southwark and Lewisham. Southwark was absorbed into London in the 19th century and the County Council moved to new premises in Kingston-upon-Thames to make way for the new Southwark Council (later to become a Borough Council). Kingston became the official County Town at this time. Kingston itself was subsequently absorbed into (what was now) Greater London in 1965 and consequently lost the status of County Town, at least officially. However: the County Council remained in Kingston for nearly sixty years and the status of County Town was consequently undefined. Nearly all County Towns are the administrative centre of their respective County Councils, but where that is not the case is usually only because the Council has moved elsewhere (usually to save money) but the County Town status has officially remained unchanged.

The administrative centre of Surrey County Council moved to Reigate in 2021, so at least in theory, Reigate could be the County Town, but there has been no official announcement on the matter as of this posting.

This was all covered in this article until a year or two ago when some editor removed it. 2A00:23C8:9883:A001:E5FB:E771:C0D0:7BE7 (talk) 13:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

The job of Wikipedia editors is to find reliable sources (WP:RS), to incorporate their content into articles with appropriate paraphrasing and to add an appropriate citation. Henry Elliot Malden wrote in the Victoria County History in 1911: "Guildford is the old county town of Surrey". Similarly, David M. Palliser wrote in an academic work in 2006: "Guildford seems usually to have functioned as the county town from the twelfth century". Both of these sources easily pass the quality threshold of WP:RS.

Academics are trained to synthesise information from multiple sources and to draw appropriate conclusions - that is essentially their job. We, as Wikipedia editors are not allowed to synthesise, which is why WP:SYNTHESIS exists. However, we can incorporate conclusions that an academic has drawn from their research and published.

You might disagree with the conclusion that they have drawn, in which case you need to get reputable publisher to publish your research, which we can then cite here on Wikipedia.

You have mentioned the grant of the County Court, which is mentioned in the article under the "Governance" section - this has not been removed as you claim.

The opinions of museum curators, council officials, tourism bureaux workers etc are irrelevant - they are not cited in the article.

The only question remaining therefore is: Does the wording "Guildford has historically been considered the county town" accurately reflect Malden (1911) and Palliser (2006)? Indeed it does and appropriately paraphrases the conclusions that they have drawn (and are entitled to draw as established academics) without committing a copyright violation. 2A02:C7C:A89B:F00:1480:66C6:81BD:83E0 (talk) 14:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Palliser only says "seems usually"" which is hardly a ringing endorsement of the theory. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 14:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

"Guildford, Surrey (disambiguation)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Guildford, Surrey (disambiguation). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 27#Guildford, Surrey (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:57, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Guildford Library (North St) opening date

While looking through back issues of the Surrey Advertiser, I came across an article about Guildford Library in North Street. It opened to borrowers on 15 August 1962. The reference is: {{cite news |title= Crowds at the new library |date= 18 August 1962 |work= Surrey Advertiser |issue= 12,209 |page= 1 }}. There may have been an official opening ceremony at a later date, but I haven't yet come across a report about it. I don't think this date needs to be added to the Guildford article at the moment, but am noting it here in case it is useful in the future. Mertbiol (talk) 10:29, 15 July 2023 (UTC)