Talk:Mohammed Deif

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Q1: Why is Mohammed Deif shown as alive?

A1: per WP:BDP, "anyone born within the past 115 years is [considered alive] unless a reliable source has confirmed their death". Although the Israeli military stated on August 1, 2024 that it has evidence that Deif was successfully assassinated, and on November 2, 2024 a London-based Saudi aligned newspaper reported that his remains have been confirmed, Hamas has denied Deif's death. On November 21, 2024 the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for him with the comment that the warrant would be withdrawn upon the confirmation of Deif's death.
To comply with Wikipedia's neutrality policy, the consensus is to follow the actions of the International Criminal Court which purports to be neutral (having issued arrest warrants to leaders on both sides of the Israel-Hamas War).

Q2: Does this mean that Hamas's version is given more weight?

A2: It means that preference is given to the version of the person being alive. Given that a reputable international organization claims that it cannot verify Deif's death, WP:BDP requires the assumption that he's still alive.

Q3: What would happen if Hamas were to announce his death but were to provide a different date, location, and cause for his death?

A3: Unless one side provides stronger evidence than the other side, under such a scenario it would be proper to list both dates, locations, and causes with parenthesis indicating whose date, location, and cause is associated with which version

Q4: What could happen in 2080 (115 years after Deif's birth) under the scenario of no new information is made available (i.e. Deif's death is still denied from the Palestinian side, and no new evidence is provided about his death)?

A4: At that point, it would be permissible to enter the Israeli version of the time, place, and cause of his death with the parenthetical statement that the information is disputed.

Q5: How do Wikipedias in other languages handle this issue?

A5: Each Wikipedia is run differently with different rules, meaning that the consensus reached in other Wikipedias could be different. Not all Wikipedias have policies regarding biographies of living people, and even those who have such a policy, few have a clause within their policy page on how to handle death announcements.
Since the English Wikipedia has been hit with an unfortunate incident regarding the biography of a living person as far back as 2005, it has developed the most stringent policies regarding biographies of living people.

Mohammed Deif was nominated as a Social sciences and society good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (April 10, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

"Situation in the State of Palestine: ICC Pre-Trial Chamber I rejects the State of Israel's challenges to jurisdiction and issues warrants of arrest for Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant Image". www.icc-cpi.int. 21 November 2024. Retrieved 21 November 2024.
Arrest warrants issued for Netanyahu, Gallant and Hamas commander over alleged war crimes | BBC News. 21 November 2024. Retrieved 21 November 2024.
"What the ICC said on the arrest warrants against Gallant, Netanyahu and Hamas leader Deif". Reuters. 22 November 2024. Retrieved 21 November 2024. The Chamber found that the alleged conduct of Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant concerned the activities of Israeli government bodies and the armed forces against the civilian population in Palestine, more specifically civilians in Gaza.
"ICC issues arrest warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, Deif". www.france24.com France 24. 21 November 2024. Retrieved 21 November 2024.
Nick Spicer (21 November 2024). "The International Criminal Court has issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant". www.npr.org NPR. Retrieved 21 November 2024. Israel rejects the court's allegations, which include the use of starvation as a weapon of war and "intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population." The ICC also issued a warrant Thursday for the arrest of Muhammad Deif, Hamas' military chief.

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Survived 5 other attacks?

If this is true and not hearsay, a reference should be included.

Official list of casualties from Hamas health ministry

Does anyone have access to the official list of fatalities provided by Hamas? I was just wondering if Sinwar and other prominent figures were on the list, and maybe accidentally Deif. Alternatively, I wonder if a "martyrs and missing persons" form was filled out and if this information is published for public viewing. 2405:6E00:421:BF7F:3CFA:3E38:C579:97CF (talk) 11:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Gaza health ministry death toll is based mainly on medical records, so it’s safe to assume most if not all of the deaths reported by them are civilian as militants killed in battle would be on the battlefield

the last publication of the Gaza health ministry was 31 August, 649 pages with 34,000 names including cases with notoriety like Hind rajab

this is the PDF of the names

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16dyrQ5sEm4KkLx1bXyjsLW16fH-hXhBF/view The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 07:42, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the list. I guess it's too outdated to be of use.

I don't understand what you mean by "militants killed in battle would be on the battlefield" rather than on the list. If the list was current, surely Sinwar would be on the list since Hamas has confirmed the death? Those submitted as "missing" wouldn't be on the list under their official ID, but unidentifiable bodies should be, under a new ID: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/10/13/why-the-gaza-health-ministry-s-death-count-is-considered-reliable_6729264_8.html. I haven't read any news to suggest that if an unidentified body is somehow attached to weapons it would be excluded from the list. An identified person killed in battle could be intentionally excluded but I have not seen this confirmed in English-speaking news.

The following is the official "martyrs and missing persons" form:

https://sehatty.ps/moh-registration/public/add-order

I imagine a Hamas official has submitted Sinwar by now through this form or other means (since this form seems intended for families more so than hospitals, where there is a field to indicate a hospital was previously notified).

I don't speak Arabic but maybe by "battlefield" you meant "buried under rubble"? According to Google Translate, الأنقاض is the closest translation I could find, but is doesn't seem to reverse-translate into battlefield. If your news sources are in Arabic, I can try translating those pages myself.

Shukran 2405:6E00:2EE:F0EB:A122:8FB0:DE50:F117 (talk) 21:52, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Section heading

There is nothing alleged about the attempted assassination of July 13, 2024. Hence, the word "alleged" is inappropriate for the section heading. Since Israel claims that the attempted assassination was successful, they are not going to attempt to assassinate him again. Hence, the most accurate way to characterize the attempted assassination of July 13, and distinguish it from all the other attempted assassinations, is "the last attempted assassination". The Mountain of Eden (talk) 20:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deif is dead

This was confirmed by genetic and dental tests on his body found in Rafah. Any attempt to deny his death is denying reality. צחי (talk) 21:03, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I second this. The Shadow-Fighter (talk) 03:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please show source stating genetic and dental tests confirm the death. DGtal (talk) 10:11, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We would need a reliable source and not simply unsourced rumours to make this change. Smallangryplanet (talk) 19:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have proof, they have not shown a body and the DNA test is not admissable evidence, we have to assume he is alive until its actually proven that he is dead, so don't go around updating wikipedia pages with unconfirmed information. Ilipopgamer (talk) 17:02, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to read the article at Asharq al-Awsat. Select quotes include:

a partial body believed to be Deif's was found at the strike site days after the attack
Tests on these samples reportedly confirmed the remains likely belonged to Deif

The only reason Deif is not shown in the article as dead is that the International Criminal Court, which purports to be neutral, said that it could not confirm his death. Deif was shown as dead in the article during the three weeks between the publication of the article at Asharq al-Awsat and that warrant issued by the ICC. --The Mountain of Eden (talk) 20:51, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Talk:Mohammed Deif/FAQ. This is not about denying (nor confirming) reality. This is about following policy in case when the death of a person is disputed. --The Mountain of Eden (talk) 15:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh, nothing is on that talk page. So there is no way to confirm his death. 2600:1702:5870:5930:3CF8:49D1:19C0:7F88 (talk) 00:37, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 January 2025

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Muhammad Deif was assassinated by the IDF. If you don't trust me, check. Liad1456 (talk) 13:40, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done, per previous talk page discussions Rainsage (talk)

Mohammed Deif is dead and this article is not neutral

Why are the Hamas propagandists of Wikipedia trying to pretend he’s still alive? Almost all reliable sources say he’s almost certainly dead, and you wouldn’t get that impression at all if you read this article. This article stands as a testament to the unbelievable bias on modern day Wikipedia. 181.137.37.50 (talk) 15:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]